Firearms Freedom Act Introduced in Minnesota
15. May, 2009 
33 Comments
From the Press Release:
On May 7th, State Representative Tom Emmer [R-Delano] introduced the “Firearms Freedom Act,” legislation that will protect firearm owners and manufacturers in Minnesota from federal government restrictions on the lawful exercise of Second Amendment rights.
“For far too long elected officials and unelected bureaucrats at the federal level have passively forgotten or actively neglected the Tenth Amendment that guarantees rights not enumerated in the Constitution be left to the individual states,” said Rep. Emmer. “The willful disregard of the Tenth Amendment in relation to a citizen’s right to bear arms isn’t the only constitutional infringement that we should be worried about, but it is one that has been singled out by the new administration.”
The bill would exempt any personal firearm, firearm accessory or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Minnesota and that remains within the boundaries of the state from federal law or regulation; including registration.
“The federal government shouldn’t be keeping track of citizens that are lawfully exercising their Second Amendment rights,” said Rep. Emmer. “Now, more than ever, citizens need be vigilant when it comes to protecting their individual liberties.”
Read the full text of the legislation below:
A bill for an act relating to commerce; exempting from federal regulation under the commerce clause of the Constitution of the United States a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured and retained in Minnesota;proposing coding for new law in Minnesota Statutes, chapter 624.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF MINNESOTA:
Section 1. [624.7182] FIREARMS FREEDOM ACT.
Subdivision 1. Short title. Subdivisions 1 to 6 may be cited as the “Minnesota Firearms Freedom Act.”
Subd. 2. Declaration of authority. Legislative authority for this section derives from the following provisions:
(1) The tenth amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees to the states and their people all powers not granted to the federal government elsewhere in the Constitution and reserves to the state and people of Minnesota certain powers as they were understood at the time that Minnesota was admitted to statehood in 1858. The guaranty of those powers is a matter of contract between the state and people of Minnesota and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Minnesota and the United States in 1858.
(2) The ninth amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees to the people rights not granted in the Constitution and reserves to the people of Minnesota certain rights as they were understood at the time that Minnesota was admitted to statehood in 1858. The guaranty of those rights is a matter of contract between the state and people of Minnesota and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Minnesota and the United States in 1858.
(3) The regulation of intrastate commerce is vested in the states under the ninth and tenth amendments to the United States Constitution, particularly if not expressly preempted by federal law. Congress has not expressly preempted state regulation of intrastate commerce pertaining to the manufacture on an intrastate basis of firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition.
(4) The second amendment to the United States Constitution reserves to the people the right to keep and bear arms as that right was understood at the time that Minnesota was admitted to statehood in 1858, and the guaranty of the right is a matter of contract between the state and people of Minnesota and the United States as of the time that the compact with the United States was agreed upon and adopted by Minnesota and the United States in 1858.
Subd. 3. Definitions. As used in subdivisions 1 to 6, the following definitions apply:
(1) “Firearms accessories” means items that are used in conjunction with or mounted upon a firearm but are not essential to the basic function of a firearm, including but not limited to telescopic or laser sights, ammunition magazines, flash or sound suppressors, folding or aftermarket stocks and grips, speedloaders, ammunition carriers, and lights for target illumination.
(2) “Generic and insignificant parts” includes but is not limited to springs, screws, nuts, and pins.
(3) “Manufactured” means that a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition has been created from basic materials for functional usefulness, including but not limited to forging, casting, machining, or other processes for working materials.
Subd. 4. Prohibitions. (a) This subdivision applies to a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured in Minnesota from basic materials and that can be manufactured without the inclusion of any significant parts imported from another state.
(b) A personal firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition that is manufactured commercially or privately in Minnesota and that remains within the boundaries of the state of Minnesota is not subject to federal law or federal regulation, including registration, under the authority of Congress to regulate interstate commerce. It is declared by the legislature that those items have not traveled in interstate commerce.
(c) Generic and insignificant parts that have other manufacturing or consumer product applications are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition, and their importation into Minnesota and incorporation into a firearm, a firearm accessory, or ammunition manufactured in Minnesota does not subject the firearm, firearm accessory, or ammunition to federal regulation.
(d) It is declared by the legislature that basic materials, such as unmachined steel and unshaped wood, are not firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition and are not subject to congressional authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition under interstate commerce as if they were actually firearms, firearms accessories, or ammunition.
(e) The authority of Congress to regulate interstate commerce in basic materials does not include authority to regulate firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition made in Minnesota from those materials.
(f) Firearms accessories that are imported into Minnesota from another state and that are subject to federal regulation as being in interstate commerce do not subject a firearm to federal regulation under interstate commerce as a result of being attached to or used in conjunction with a firearm in Minnesota.
Subd. 5. Exemptions. Subdivision 4 does not apply to:
(1) a firearm that cannot be carried and used by one person;
(2) a firearm that has a bore diameter greater than 1-1/2 inches and that uses smokeless powder, not black powder, as a propellant;
(3) ammunition with a projectile that explodes using an explosion of chemical energy after the projectile leaves the firearm; or
(4) a firearm, other than a shotgun, that discharges two or more projectiles with one activation of the trigger or other firing device.
Subd. 6. Marketing of firearms. A firearm manufactured or sold in Minnesota under this section must have the words “Made in Minnesota” or “Made in MN” clearly stamped on a central metallic part of the firearm, such as the receiver or frame.
EFFECTIVE DATE.This section applies to firearms, firearms accessories, and ammunition that are manufactured, as defined in subdivision 3, and retained in Minnesota after October 1, 2009.
If you enjoyed this post:
Click Here to Get the Free Tenth Amendment Center Newsletter,
Montana, Texas, and now Minnesota! Wow, this is really cool! This is a major poke in the eye of the Federal government. Let’s hope it passes.
Oh there’s more coming down the pike….
I guess full autos are not covered by the 2a?
Type HR 45 into your search engine and see what Rep. Bobby Rush of ILL. is trying to do to gun owners. He presented a Bill in Jan. that says among other things that all gun owners would have to register their firearms every 5 years and no one can own a firearm that has a magazine. A bunch of crazy stuff. But thankfully he has no co-sponsers so far but this is where the Fed. Govt would like to go. This is why this type state legislation is so important.
Rich with the price of ammo I would just as soon have an semi automatic 12 gauge and plenty of double 00 shells. But I would like to see fully automatic weapons legal for those so inclined.
This is about State’s rights and the federal government getting out of control. the hurdle that will need to be overcome is the courts. this is going to go to the courts and that could be a problem. However, this is the first of many steps for the states to regain the control the federal government has stripped away.
Way to go Minnisota! Me frum Texas. by the way, is ALAN SCRAMSTEAD STILL AROUND? WAS AT TESSIE TEC MIT HIM. GOOD MAN!
I’ve lived in Minnesota all my life, I’m not surprised, yet I am.
I feel better already!
Thank You Representative Tom Emmer!
If this applies only to firearms manufactured in Minnesota and retained in Minnesota can a person buy a Ruger, Winchester ,Remington , Smith & Wesson etc? How many gun manufacturers are there in Minne? Also if it must be retained in Minne.won’t be going on any elk hunts in Colo. or bear in Alaska.
Federal law does not prohibit taking your own guns to other states for hunting, it regulates interstate SALES. If you do not intend to sell it then it is not interstate commerce and should not be restricted. If you move from one stste to another you can take your own guns without violating Federal law. If they are allowed in your ‘new’ state of residence thay are still yours and have not traveled in interstate commerce.
Buncha good stuff here. there is a movement afoot that will charge obummer and his minions w/fraud and treason. Buncha grand jury indictments in texas and on the internet. Mabe we get shut of these traitorous busturds.
Yall wanna see some real truths backed up by facts that are well documented? On your search engin type in GUN FACTS and hit enter. Its all there. page after page after page. My favorite is GUN FACTS 5.0. I like its format, it is a pdf, you can download, copy, print and share (see the only restrictions in file). Also if you type in ON SHEEP WOLVES AND SHEEPDOGS (BY DAVE GROSSMAN) you will find a very intresting fact about people in general. By the way, I am a sheepdog and we need you!
Mr. Cline while I agree with your sentiments, the left already thinks this whole Tenth Amendment movement is just to get rid of Obama. The truth is all politicans for the past several decades have betrayed their oath of office and the American people. The over reaching Federal Govt didn’t start with this administration. I think if we could start people to thinking outside “party” and get them thinking of their rights under the Constitution this movement would gain wide spread support. That is what it is going to take for enough people to get on board and make this happen.
Tanks B.K. I think we have a much larger problem than any of us realizes. What you suggest is good and I agree. However it will never be enough. The right has been outspent very badly so far as lobbying. The gun lobby has held its own. The rest has not. The lawyers, the unions, especially our government employees union and such have bought all of our government employees. They no longer work for us. Short of nuking DC while the big fish are all there how do you propose to get rid of them? We have a fat chance of unelecting those that are already entrenched. Both parties are completely corrupted and probably the others also. How do you get 180 million people to change their minds, especially when they have been bought with handouts and are too stupid to realize what they are doing? practically nobody knows the extent of the corruption of our government. Will our own troops fight for or against the people?
Mr. Cline we did not lose our rights nor did our states lose theirs overnight. It could take a couple of election cycles but I believe we can have our Constitution back without blood shed. I believe also that we have forgotten that the people making the laws are elected in the states. If they see a trend of candidates getting elected who embrace states rights no matter what party they belong to, we will soon have many politicans getting on board the Tenth Amendment movement. Its easy to view Washington as seperate from all state enfluence but let at few encumbants get voted out and some new blood that puts the Constitution first and they will get the message. As for our troops, again the Federal Govt. only has the power that states allow them. I think our troops will be proud to defend the Constitution and their commanders as well.
MR CAMPBELL SIR. I MOST CERTAINLY HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT. HOWEVER UNTIL I READ SOME RECENT ARTICLES AT CFP. I WAS NOT OVERLY ALARMED. THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BOUGHT OUR EMPLOYEES BUY THEM BY EXTENDING THEM MONEY TO RUN FOR OFFICE. IT TAKES A LOT OF MONEY TO RUN. IT IS TRUE THAT LIKE THE LEFTIST PRESS SAYS, THE MAN WITH THE MOST MONEY AND LIES THE BEST WILL WIN. IF THEY DO NOT AGREE TO DO THE WILL OF THE DONORS THEY WILL NOT GET THE MONEY. THEREFORE THE POLITITIONS THEMSELVES ARE CORRUPTED BEFORE EVER RUNNING. A MAN I HAVE VOTED FOR FOR MANY YEARS FOR CONGRESS CLAIMS TO BE PRO CONSTITUTION. HOWEVER HE IS AT THIS TIME VERY SUSPECT. I PROBABLY WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN. ONLY IF THE GOOD GUYS BUY THEM FIRST IS THERE ANY HOPE. I HAVE BEGUN TO BELIEVE THAT IF A MAN IS IN POLITICS, HE IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. AND PLEASE DO NOT GET ME WRONG, I DO NOT WISH FOR ANYTHING RESEMBLING CIVIL WAR. ALTHOUGH I DO HAVE A CAPACITY FOR VIOLENCE I DO NOT LIKE VIOLENCE. HOWEVER I THINK I COULD SHOOT SOME OF THOSE PEOPLE IN THE CROTCH WITH A SHOTGUN AND WATCH THEM BLEED TO DEATH. CONTRARY TO THE BLEEDING HEARTS I BELIEVE A CRIMINAL SHOULD PAY DEARLY FOR HIS CRIMES. ONLY THEN WILL TEHRE BE ANYTHING LIKE DETERRANT. FIRST CRIME BY A YOUNG PERSON WHO HAS NOT GRADUATED FROM HIGH SCHOOL SHOULD DRAW A VERY SEVERE SENTENCE. HE WILL NOT GET OUT UNTIL HE COMPLETES STUDIES THAT EARN HIM A DEPLOMA. HE WILL THEN LEARN A TRADE. HE WILL BE ASSIGNED A JOB AND EXPECTED TO REMAIN ON THAT JOB FOR THREE YEARS. IF HE REFUSES TO DO SO HE WOULD RETURN TO PRISON UNTIL HE DOES. IF AND WHEN HE COMPLETES HIS APPRENTICESHIP, HE IS FREE. IF HE EVER COMMITS A FELONY CRIME HE RETURNS TO PRISON FOR AT LEAST 40 YEARS WITH HARD LABOR. WHEN RELEASED, IF HE COMMITS ANOTHER CRIME KILL HIM BECAUSE HE AIN’T NEVER GOING TO LEARN. THERE AIN’T NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN STEALING A PENNY AND STEALING A MILLION DOLLARS. IF A MAN TELLS YOU HE HAS NEVER TOLD A LIE HE IS LIEING. IF A MAN TELLS YOU HE HAS NEVER STOLEN ANYTHING HE IS A LIAR AND THE TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM. IN THE EYES OF GOD, IF YOU ARE GUILTY OF ANY SIN HOWSOEVER SMALL YOU ARE GUILTY OF THE WHOLE LAW. YOU ARE REQUIRED TO REPENT OR DIE. RANT RANT RANT. LOL
Remind me not to get CLC mad folks. When he gets going, het gets going!
All kidding aside, remember that this condition that we are in now stems from nearly 100 years of overly blatant Constitutional violation. People let things slide because of “good intentions”. Well, ya’ll know as well as I do where the road paved with “good intentions” leads.
Here’s the chance to turn away from that path and do so resoundingly! by it will take many many voices and much education to defeat the progressive agenda.
Frankly I hope BK is correct and a couple of election cycles is enough to turn things around. However, I wonder if it will be done that quickly at all. Worse, I wonder if it can be done peaceably. Tyrants do not surrender power easily and we have few allies for Freedom in DC.
Still there is a chance. As I have noted a time or two before, the average progressive-(socialist, liberal, whatever) is not overly blessed with courage. I believe it goes with the entitlement mindset. Remember these are the people and their supporters who would rather live off the government dole than get a job. When faced with a real challenge, most will run or point fingers. For an example I look at today’s headlines and Pelosi’s little predicament.
Were it possible, I’d happily vote for legislation to stop sending any of my State’s money to DC. That alone would be the quickest and surest way to starve the beast in the National Capitol.
Greetings Trouble! glad to hear fm u. sounds like we got some intelegence commenting now. I notice the silence from the others which to me sounds like someone is listening. That is good! it is nice to not have rancor and hatred and name calling on a forum. I think the three of us have some good ideas. I was gettin rawtha di encouraged and yall cheer me considerable.
I think that probably the best and only way we can change things is to get on every bog we can and get people to really thinking. We need to feed the sheep with truth backed up by facts that are irefutable therefore we must find those facts and feed the flock. I think this is a struggle for mens minds more than anything else. I see so many that are merely parroting the mass medias lies and such. our people have been brainwashed in the public schools, the newspapers, TV, and magazenes useing advertising techniques. I have heard and read that our colleges are polerized with left wingers on one side and flocking together as birds of a feather do and right wingers doing the same. I once owned a laundry near a large college. before the college improved their laund. facilities i had a lot of them come in in the eve. several who came in in groups talked to me telling me that we should releive the rich of all their money and distribute it among the rest. What a crock! I tried to explain that the rest were so many that there really would not be much money in anyones hands. That in just a very few years the rest would mostly be in the same shape they always were. The former rich would have most of it back. Riches are not gotten easily. they are earned by most. it takes a special person with the grit and willingness to sacrifice, the drive, to become rich in the first place. Attributes only a fiew have. once rich it still takes a special talent not found in most people to remain rich. Notice that rich families tend to remain rich generation after generation? Poor people tend to follow the same process. any way, when they started yelling me down I told them, in this country we have the freedom to believe anything we wish to believe. however in this country we do not have to believe anything. I do not believe as you do but i honor your right to do so. however you will either honor my right also or i will kill you. That is my freedom which is basic to our constitution. Thereafter they at least honored my right to not be forced to listen to their crap. So this remains a war for the minds of the people. Hitler won the minds of enough people. we are getting there. we must not rant, we must not rave. we must not lie. we must not force. with a little prodding the sheep will go where the sheep dogs point them instead of where th wolves push them which is into caos and death. Plse scuse my spelling. lol
BEn reading our posts again. BK sir, i failed to address perhaps the first statement in your first answere to mine. this did not happen overnight and so forth. The fact is, the left has bought our elected employees. they have lobbied and spent much more money than the right has with the exception of the gun lobby. This money is given in the form of ilection donations. The more money a cndidate has to spend the better the chance he has to become elected. the better liar has a better chance also. combine the two and the better liar is heard more often because he has more money to spend. the lefties put their money where their mouth is. by accepting these donations the candidate is obligated to do what the doner wishes. he then repays that money out of the taxpayers pocket by favoring the doner so that he has an monopoly on the taxpayers money outflow. the bigger the government gets the bigger the outflow of money and the mor the candidate has in his war chest. there are rules as to how this campaign money may be spent. however the fox is in charge of the henhouse so to speak. the biggest lobbyest right now is the union. this is the union formed by the unelected employees in our bloated government. hence such things as only union shops are used by government spenders. this is truth. take it to the bank and deposit it. the only way we are going to win this one is to reduce the size of government. the only way to reduce the size of government is OUT SPEND THE LOBBIES?
It would seem so to me. It has been suggested that about 60 million people voted against this administration. If each of them donated $100 that would give us some 6 billion for a war chest. problem one, if you are lucky only 10% would donate. the others would just sit around and say poor me. the vast majouity that voted conservative are well able to donate. if they did who would administer this fund? where would we get the leaders to collect this fund? Where would we get the people to badger the people to donate? and etc; I am too old and inferm. i will die soon even if the neonazies dont assassinate me.
I hope the rest of yall who have commented here are reading these posts. how come only three of us are commenting any more? Come on guys and gals we would love to hear what you have to say! Talk to us. We love our country and its citizens. We do not have all the brains nor all the facts. a discussion ceases to be dynamic when only those who agree with each other discuss. Nobody learns anything new there. ideas are not truly explored. truths are not discovered. ya done have 2 B a rocket scientist. ur spellen done hav to B prefect. good grammer, while helpful, is not paramount by any means. good manners is greatly appreciatd. Questions are very much appreciated because we can only learn by asking questions. Questions lead to research and reserch leads to truths not yet percieved. Luv Yoll.
Clarence, Your right not so many posters here but when they come and they will come because I am posting the Tenth Amendment Center on every political blog I can find,and I am just one doing that. There are many. You are right of course there is a lot of money behind the power in place now and its not only lobbyist. Its also the Federal Reserve. They are the largest that any politican has to deal with because they make and break politicans. When we post, what I don’t want to do is make anyone think this is just some right wing movement. Its for every freedom loving American out there but I guess we come across as mostly conservatives because we support the second amendment. The left has always yelled the loudest for their rights but they pick and choice which rights they want. Like gay marriage. We need all the help we can get. Yesw we ned money. We need our own cable channel and a charismatic speaker…perferably gay.
I am a sheepdog.
Clarence the essay on Sheep, wolves and sheepdogs was excellent and right on the money. The only thing Dave did not address is the certified sheepdogs not recognizing the civilian sheep dogs and wolves dressed up like certified sheepdogs. It was a great read and should be required reading at the voting booth. Like Carol, I am a sheepdog:)
BK- You and me both. I’ve left the URL for this site all over Fox. Gets some good and some bad, but that’s exposure nonetheless.
CLC- Ya I had you pegged for a opnionated old codger right off the bat.
Don’t take offense, that’s a compliment in my book!
Carole- Welcome to the dog pack.
Please fellas. I am 74 years old. i once had an iq near genius. however my mental powers are and have been in decline for a while. I have suffered much which colors much of what i say. My health is not good either. things get foggy occasionally. sometimes i have a problem just knowing exactly where i am at the moment. However i love my country. I feel a great amount of guilt because it took me so long to wake up as to what was happening. then it took the internet to truly educate me somewhat. I am not a scoller and never have been. nor will i ever be. I dropped out of college under the GI bill after one semester. however i do consider myself well read on the subjects that have cemented my beliefs and attitudes in life. i have read and studied in the bible and writings about the bible. According to what i and my beloved oldest grandson have learned, i am indeed a christian although i seldom go to church. I believe and hold as truth John 3:16 which explains explicitly what must happen to be a child of God. after John 3:16 it goes on to say “it is a gift of God lest any man should boast.” In other words, Salvation (Going to heaven opposed to dying forever in hell) is a gift. free of anything but acceptance and BELIEF in Jesus Christ and that he died to absolve us of our sins. it is a gift tells me that this is ALL that is necessary. all else then comes more or less naturally. however we are also told elsewhere that we WILL SIN, WE CANNOT HELP BUT SIN BECAUSE WE HAVE INHERITED THE SINS OF ADAM AND EVE. This cannot and will not change. So we must pray to God and admit those sins. we must study to know exactly what those sins are and etc; . sorry to preach. however this is the basic that i live by. I have read also much fiction. Pearl Buck is one of my favorites. She is very good at protraying human nature as it is without opinion nor rancor. The good earth, the landsman, sons and so forth show the rise and decline of a man and his family. come my beloved touches on bigotry and intolerance. then there is science fiction. Hienlen comes to mind here. the man is definately not a christian. however he also is very good at prtraying human nature. The Number Of the Beast comes to mind. then there are others like arthur clark. i read childhoods end several times before i got his point and understood what he was saying. the westerns dateing back to the fourties and fifties along with the lone ranger, and zane gray shaped my character long before i became a christian or knew it existed. then there was dickens and the authors that wrote the black stallion and such. how about robinson cruso, les miserables, tom sawyer and all those books. I think i have read them all. the horrer writers, the mysterys, hardy boys, readers digest condensed books (i have most of them from the 60’s to the present on my shelves. i subscribed to readers digest for many years and read them from cover to cover. National Geographic was a read every month for many years. i considered the naked or near nakid blacks from africa a curiosity along with all the rest of nature. Field and stream, outdoor life and such have been a lifetime experience. NRA magazenes for much of my adult life. many of the historical novels are a good read. My encyclopedia when i ran out of anything else opened at random and read. I never had algebra in school. when i was in my late twenties i taught it to myself useing a library book or two. Sience adventure is a lot of fun also. I learned much about the religions and different Christian divisions from the encyclopedias filled in by writings by their people. memory of the teachings in our public schools in subjects like american history and such appalls me. reading the mass media stuff and then the truth appalls me. It is no wonder to me that my beloved country seems to be going to hell in a handbasket because of the lies, misinformation and refusal to teach the whole truth that has been applied to our children in the academic world. things like evolution have been taught in our schools as fact or at best theory while there was little enough proof to make it even an idea. Do not get me wrong, i believe in evolution. but not the crap taught in school even when i was there in 1945 through 1954. what with all the hoxes like the pildown man and Lucy and others. I do not believe in an omeba or something like it changing to a fish then a frog and a monkey then to a man. true scientists in all forms and colors say this is not possible. however true historical facts prove the Bible is historical fact. everything in science proves that what is called evolution in our schools is pure bs.
true science is takeing something and descovering facts about it without presumption and letting the truth fall where it may. what is now known about genetics, and all of the other sciences suct as space and laws of nature preclude any possibility of darwins apothocie being fact. even the big bang theory points to a devine origin of everything. science has proven that the galaxy and everything in it could not have just spontainiously happened. there are certain rules that are followed by everything that exists from atoms to life. but again i degress.
i love my country. i love what it stands for. i love the constitution of the united states. it is the best and most beautiful thing that man has ever created because it does the ultimate, short of what God has given us, of all documents. when it was written and accepted, for the first time since mankind fell, was destroyed in a flood and governments came into being, men were free. useing that freedom men once again enslaved men. men useing that same freedom are attempting to destroy the very freedoms they enjoy so that men will not have those freedoms ever again. to me this makes no sense whatsoever. i am ashamed that i too have sinned. i have sinned the sin of unattention and of not seeing that men are being men again. i have sinned because i believed in the honor and integrety of man. I trusted instead of watching. because of that something wonderful may very well die and those i love so much along with it. i would rather be in hell than to see this happen. if it cannot be fixed i will die fighting to get it so. any person that is helpig deliberately to destroy what is mine will die slowly and horribly if i am allowed to have my way. I have spoken.
Hi Carole. welcome to the dog pack. tho i am old and feeble and a bit short in the tooth I can still growl. you sound shy.
tanks trouble i like you too.
Hey BK i kinda taut yo vas. now you know it too. i like you also. oh, i will be right back with some more from the sheep dog guy.
hairs nuther
After The Shooting
“…there are some things that you need to remember…”
by Larry Correia
As self-defense oriented people, we tend to think about the actual encounter a lot, and seldom, if ever, about what we should do in the aftermath. If you are unlucky enough to be involved in a violent encounter, there are some things that you need to remember to maximize your chances of a successful outcome.
Call for help immediately. Even if you produced the gun and your assailant retreated with no shots fired, call the police. If there is somebody out there worth pulling a gun on, then the cops need to know about it. They may have just gone around the corner to pick an easier victim.
As soon as it is safe for you to do so, call 911. Always ask for an ambulance. If somebody has been shot, whether injured or even if you are a hundred percent sure that they are dead, I still want you to ask for medical attention. First off, killing people sucks, so if I’ve got an injured assailant, I don’t want him to die, I just wanted to make him leave me alone. Second, if you don’t ask for medical attention, then there is a good chance that fact will be brought up during any potential trial. Basically it is just another tool of a prosecutor trying to portray the permit holder as a blood-thirsty vigilante.
If humanly possible, have your weapon secured before the police arrive, at least in your holster, but definitely not in your hand. The responding officers do not know you, and the information they got from dispatch was probably sketchy at best. The last thing you want to do is survive a violent encounter only to get shot by the cops because they think you’re the bad guy.
If you are ever in a situation where you still have the gun in your hands, and the police arrive, they are going to order you to drop the gun. Comply with their instructions because otherwise they may think you are the threat and very well may shoot you. Do not start talking or trying to explain what is going on. Don’t be offended because they are treating you like the bad guy. This is not the time to get indignant. This is the time to keep from getting shot.
If you have medical training, and you have just shot and injured an attacker, you may be tempted to administer first aid. Keep in mind, however, that a minute ago this person was trying to hurt you bad enough that they were worth shooting. That threat may still be a threat. Your primary advantage is the fact that you have a firearm. If you then put yourself close enough to administer treatment, you are giving up that advantage. He may not be as incapacitated as you thought, and when he wakes up and sees the person who just shot him within arm’s length, you have a real good chance of getting your head twisted off your shoulders. He may have a folding knife that you won’t know about until it cuts your kidney in half.
Keep in mind that when the police shoot somebody, the paramedics do not rush in and give immediate aid. The police always secure the individual before the paramedics move in. That is for everyone’s safety. If you have been through first responder training, keep in mind one of the very first examples that was given to your class. If you come across a car accident, and the car is on fire, you do not have to climb into the burning car to try and help, because now you are just one more injured person to treat. You never want to endanger yourself to administer aid.
Never tamper with the crime scene. You may have heard the old myth, usually given by an imbecile that does not understand self-defense law, “if you shoot the guy on the porch, drag him in the living room.” Bad idea. Do not ever do that. Once you shoot someone, wherever it happened is now a crime scene. If you tamper with the evidence, the authorities will figure it out, and this will now create doubt in the minds of the reasonable people looking at your case. If you felt the need to tamper with the scene, they will believe that you are trying to hide something. The only thing you may do is to make the area physically safe for yourself, but other than that, leave it alone.
On that same note, do not flee the scene. Your personal safety comes first, so if you need to get away to keep from being injured, that is one thing, but make sure that you then call the police as quickly as possible. If you flee the scene of a shooting, that once again raises the specter of guilt with the authorities, and that will color their investigation accordingly.
The responding officers are going to question you. I want you to give a brief statement, and then shut up, accent on brief, with little or no details. As in, “Officer, he attacked me, I was in fear for my life, so I shot him.” That is it. Do not start to babble to the police. Do not try to explain everything at the time. They will continue to question you. At that point you will politely tell them that you are not going to answer any more questions until you have your attorney present.
When you shoot somebody, unless you have ice water in your veins, you will be going through various stress reactions. Some of you may be in shock, others will be distraught that they just took a life, others may be enraged that some bad guy just threatened their children, but whatever your reaction, you will not be in a calm state of mind. It is a medical fact that adrenalin affects our higher brain functions. You will tend to forget details, some of which may be very important, or even worse, your brain will fill in the forgotten blanks with facts that will later be shown to be incorrect.
Wait until you have an attorney present before you make your complete statement. This gives you the time to compose yourself and calm down. Also, the Bill of Rights gives us the right to legal counsel. Take advantage of it. A good attorney will keep you from saying anything stupid that will be used against you in court later.
Now some of you may not like this. You may have the mistaken belief that it is the bad guys that need the defense attorneys, not us good guys. Unfortunately that is not how it works in real life. We work in an adversarial system, and anything you say during a statement, can and will be used against you in a court of law.
These are just a few basic tips to keep in mind. Your primary consideration in a violent encounter is to first survive the attack, but doing these things may help you survive the aftermath.
All of us who carry a gun have done something stupid at some point. We don’t often talk about these things in the fear that they might reflect on us negatively, but I think that sometimes the best way to learn from a mistake is to learn from somebody else’s. It hurts a lot less that way too.
This column is about some of the dumb mistakes we’ve made.
Some mistakes are more dangerous than others. Violations of the four rules are brutal and unforgiving. On the wall of my shop is a picture of one man who decided to take his Sigma apart (which necessitates dry-firing before removing the slide) while it was pointed at his hand. A friend of mine has zero motion in his wrist and limited use of one hand because of a similar mistake.
Jeff Cooper didn’t set down a list of “Friendly Firearms Suggestions.” They’re rules, and as long as you follow them you aren’t going to shoot yourself or somebody else on accident. I tell my students that they need to go over these rules until they become so ingrained that when they pick up a cordless drill or squirt gun their fingers are off the trigger and they’re pointed in a safe direction.
We had an incident several years ago that was a combination of stupidity and violating the four rules. A guy had just got his permit. He was really excited to show his buddy his gun. Cool, whatever, but there is a time and a place to show your friend your gun. Church isn’t it. This individual managed to have a negligent discharge in church. This lead directly to one of Utah’s few anti-gun laws, which allows churches to ban firearms from their property.
As a permit holder, one of your goals should be to never have a law named after you…
Screw ups are not limited to just dangerous handling, sometimes we just get complacent or forgetful instead. There was a case a few years ago where an individual got up to walk his dog. He stuck his .38 Special in the pocket of his bathrobe, went outside, and let his dog do its business. The .38 fell out of his pocket, he didn’t realize it, and went back inside and went to sleep. The gun was found by local school children the next morning. Luckily in this case, the kids were smart and did exactly what Eddie Eagle suggests and left it alone and got an adult.
If we’re taking a gun outside, we really owe it ourselves to make sure we don’t misplace them. I follow the same general rule with my kids. My wife gets upset when I come home with fewer children than I left with.
Forgetfulness can be expensive. A friend of mine called me at the shop one morning and asked for the name of a good firearms attorney. I asked what the problem was. Apparently my friend had made an innocent mistake, with pretty terrible repercussions.
To set the stage, my friend is a smart guy, with three Master’s degrees, and has started several successful businesses. This is not a dumb man by any means. He carries his gun in a laptop bag. His habit is to come home from work, place the gun in the safe, and then take it back out in the morning.
So one night my friend comes home from a long day at work. He’s tired. He forgets to take the gun out of the bag and goes to sleep. The next morning he has to get up extra early to catch a flight. Mentally, the gun is sitting in the safe, so he doesn’t even think about it as he rushes to the airport. You can guess what happened next.
He was arrested for trying to bring a loaded gun onto the plane. It took several months out of his life and a whole bunch of money to fight the charges, and it was only through the sheer obviousness that he wasn’t trying out for Al Qaeda that kept him out of jail.
Complacency sucks. Anytime we assume, it inevitably comes back to kick us in the teeth.
Now I’m not one of those instructors that puts on airs about how awesomely tactical I am. I’m capable of just as much idiocy as the next guy. My personal stupid permit-holder trick happened the night that Halo 3 was released. Please allow me to share so you too can learn from my dumbness.
Ironically enough, I had just finished teaching a CCW class to approximately 35 people. I came home tired and distracted. Talking for five hours straight takes it right out of you. I put my carry guns in my bedside safe and put on a pair of sweat pants. I was done for the night.
Then my lovely wife surprised me. She had purchased a game for me, and I am a total gaming nerd. What a great way to unwind. I sit down to play, only to discover that I can’t find batteries for my controller anywhere in my house. (Thanks kids) There is a grocery store a couple of blocks away, so I decided it would be quicker to just run over and grab some batteries there.
But I’m wearing sweats. I usually carry with a belt holster. I’m in a hurry, so I borrowed my wife’s fanny pack holster that she uses for working out. She has a Bulgarian Makarov as her workout gun in there. I patted the pack, felt the gun, and saw that it was zipped up. Not my normal rig, but it would work for running a quick errand. Right?
I made it twenty feet into the store, spotted an employee, asked where the batteries were, took two more steps, and heard a really loud CLUNK. I look down, and laying there on the floor was a Bulgarian Makarov. I had checked and seen that the top zipper was zipped, but my wife reaches in through the side.
I hurried and scooped up the gun and shoved it back in the pack. The employee looked over at me, raised an eyebrow and asked, “What was that?” Since I’m really clever under pressure, I responded. “I dropped my gun.” He responded with, “Oh, it happens… Batteries are over here.” which made me really glad I live in Utah. That could have gone a whole lot worse.
That was the first and only time I had ever dropped a gun. Since I’m supposed to be the guy that teaches this stuff for a living, it was extra painful. The lesson from my monumentally stupid permit-holder trick was to not be complacent. I was too lazy to change clothes so I could use my own gear, and too distracted to properly check the borrowed rig.
Halo 3 still rocked though. thot youd like hit.
thought given you guys my e-mail. guess they did not want me to.
Well I’ve given many a peace of my mind lately, here and there. Don’t know how much I have left. Know I’m getten a bit senile also. hope I Haint hurt no feelins. I may not be here after friday. Dispute with the Phone Co. They increased my payment by about 325% and won’t tell me why. Won’t pay till they do. I do not have a phone. Can’t afford anything but dialup. don’t need long distance or extended area. just the ability to have my modum dial one number in the city to get on line. Am searching for anothe phone Co. Cell phone on my stepdaughters account. 15 a month aint bad. No spam either. Don’t know whose calling so i don’t answer whole family on att except my brothers in Ca. call them after 7. I can get on the cable for just a little more than my present provider but i like where i am at. Outdoors unlimited is slow but the best. good friends there. So if i do not get back with yall soon, fight the good fight. tell them like it is. I am not single issue my fripes are many. Love all of you, pro’s and con’s. bow wow.
If this passes DPMS is gonna get REALLY popular!